If you’d like a shorter podcast listen, Love, Food is for you. In each episode, Julie answers a letter from a reader. As a podcast guest, I love this format because I feel like I’m speaking directly to someone out there!
This episode is for all who were once theatre kids, or anybody who’s ever felt like they had to change their bodies to fit in. Join Julie Dillon and Lindley Ashline as they read a letter from a listener and chat about grief, anger, and how to channel those feelings into something positive and change-making.
I often talk about anger these days because it’s been such a catalyst for my own journey. The more I discovered I’d been lied to about bodies, weight and health in pursuit of other people’s profit and power, the more angry I got, and accessing that anger has allowed me to shed so many of my own hangups about my body and become a fierce defender of other folks in marginalized bodies.
Listen to or read the episode below.
(The episode was also sponsored by a small, woman-owned business, Elan Healthcare, which is fantastic!)
Listen at this link:
Episode Transcript
Julie: Let’s divorce the dumpster fire that are from the PCOS diets. Are you living with polycystic ovarian syndrome and tired of all the diets that are not giving you the relief that they are promising they will deliver. This episode of A Love Food Podcast is in partnership with my PCOS and Food Peace course. Finally, free years self from endless PCOS fatigue, frustration, shame and guilt. For PCOS sufferers who are tired of ineffective diets and unhelpful advice join me on a PCOS and Food Peace journey that will change your life forever. Through the month of September, you’ll get 30% off using the coupon code ‘TRUTH’ at checkout. Get to all the details www.pcosandfoodpeace.com.
Say goodbye to the food police and hello to peace. Welcome to the Love Food Podcast, hosted by dietician and food behavior expert, Julie ‘Duffy’ Dillon. This authentically engineered series is in the form of a love letter, welcoming you to reconnect with food. Now pour a cup of coffee or a margarita, and let’s begin.
Hi and welcome to Episode 263 of A Love Food Podcast. I’m Julie Duffy Dillon registered dietician and partner on your Food Peace journey. I am so glad you’re here. Thank you for connecting today. Let’s start today’s episode with a question. What have you done to try to fit in? I know I tried smoking Virginia Slim’s cigarette with my friend, Valerie, and I know I also tried peach schnapps with her at some point when we were in high school and I don’t blame Valerie. Hey Valerie, you are amazing as always, but I think we were just trying to do something because it felt cool. And we also just wanted to fit in so desperately. I know there’s different things that people will do, myself included, to try to feel like we belong and that we’re included because being included it feels like we are also actually valuable.
I also appreciate that some things that people do to fit in, maybe even you, have led to a really complicated relationship with food. It may even be something that is deadly. Fitting in can feel so powerful and important. And today’s episode features a letter from someone who has tried to fit in. They are someone that’s in the performing arts and they don’t see themselves represented and they really want to do their craft, but yet they don’t see themselves represented. And we get to hear from someone who is so fabulous. I have followed this person’s work for years and years so much so that I feel like I already know this person but this episode today was actually the first time I got to speak with her. Her name is Lindley Ashline. She is a photographer, an activist and also a writer who brings so much to the conversation along the Food Peace journey. But before we get to hear this episode’s letter and hear all the wisdom from Lindley, a quick word from our sponsor.
We are welcoming back Ovofolic as a sponsor of the Love Food Podcast. We want to ask you a question, what is your PCOS truth? If you are living with PCOS you may or may not know that September is PCOS awareness month. How many people are not even aware of what PCOS actually is, but so many people experience this syndrome and it is something that can make life really complicated, especially because so much of what you experience, so many of the symptoms are invisible. We know that you often don’t feel heard or are just dismissed by your doctor and told to just lose weight and try another stupid diet that we know is not going to work and actually can provoke a lot of harm. Well, the folks at Ovofolic at Elan Healthcare, they are teaming up with me to really shine a light on how this stigma is so harmful. And so we are encouraging people with PCOS just like you to share your PCOS truth using the hashtag #mypcostruth anywhere that you use social media.
You know, I love Ovofolic. It’s a great, inositol supplement that’s third party tested has the 40:1 ratio and the company who makes it Elan Healthcare is a women own and led company. We are giving away six months supply of Ovofolic to two lucky winners. Do you want to enter? I think you should someone has to win. So go to www.juliedillonrd.com/ovofolic and you’ll get a link to sign up. Again it’s www.juliedillonrd.com/ovofolic and Ovofolic is spelled O V O F O L I C. You can also grab the link in the show notes. All right, enough of all that let’s get to this episode’s letter.
Every Monday, I send out my Body Liberation Guide, a thoughtful email jam-packed with resources on body liberation, weight stigma, body image and more. And it’s free. Let’s change the world together. Subscribe »
Dear Food,
We have had a complicated relationship. This was always destined for us based on my family history. My grandmother was a dancer desperate to be thin. And so she constantly bullied and criticized my mother and aunts about their weight. In response to this, my mother vowed never to mention diets to me. The first time I ever even heard the word diet she got suddenly serious and told me to ignore it. In fact, she never really talked about you. I didn’t do a lot of learning to cook or eating adventurously or balancing my meals. I learned a lot about comfort eating, especially when my parents broke up. But I do have some wonderful memories of family meals, making salads with my sisters or sitting around a big Sunday roast.
I caught the theater bug early, and my first serious attempts at restricting you were in my teen years, trying to get thin so I would look good on stage or get cast in the roles I wanted in our community theater. I wanted an eating disorder. I wanted to be like some of my mom students, the girls who passed out in the bathroom. I felt out of control and I wanted to be diagnosable sick so I could therefore be treated and fixed.
In my twenties my relationship with you looked more like binging than restricting and believing that this was a serious problem I joined a food related 12-step program. I grew a lot spiritually and finally felt at peace with you, but realized now that it was basically dieting with a side of spiritual baggage. I’m still confused about whether my binging was a problem and whether that program and some of its food rules was a good choice for me.
I moved to a different country to go to grad school and found I couldn’t keep up with the demands of the program was such massive life changes. I now know it was completely normal that I gained back all the weight I lost plus more. I’m no longer restricting you and feel more balanced. I’m still gaining weight, which is frustrating mostly because I can’t afford to buy clothes that fit. I feel frumpy and I miss being stylish as my body ages and I feel myself slowing down. And I’m a little sad that I’ll probably never be thin again. But I’m beginning to be ready to face what is next in our relationship as friends and not enemies.
Sincerely,
Aging from Australia.
Hey there letter writer. Thank you so much for your note. And I am excited to introduce you to Lindley Ashline. She’s a photographer, writer and activist. She’s someone who I have admired for a really long time. She has been shining a light on who is missing from the conversation when it comes to weight inclusive spaces. When we talk about body positivity or body liberation and topics like clothing, those are things that she often will talk about. And again, I’ve really admired her work and I am thrilled that she is willing to help us and answer your letter. So let’s go ahead and give Lindley a call.
Lindley: Hi, this is Lindley.
Julie: Hi Lindley. It’s Julie Duffy Dillon. How’s it going?
Lindley: Pretty good. How about you?
Julie: I’m great. It is so great to talk to you. I feel like I know you really well, but is this the first time that we’ve actually ever really talked live?
Lindley: I think so. Yeah.
Julie: I think so. I’m having that weird experience. It’s like the internet makes me feel like I already have known you for a long time which is the great part of the internet. But anyway, I am so excited to have a few minutes here with you to sift through this letter. Did you get a chance to read over it?
Lindley: I did. And I’m so excited about this letter because there are so many threads that we could pull.
Julie: So many, so many threads and you know, I have a theater kid at home, so reading about performing arts in any way, it is something that pulls extra hard. So I feel like and even more, kind of an emotional connection to this letter. But when you were reading through it, what was your general impression about what this person’s going through?
Lindley: Well, I think I have a real personal connection to this letter too, because I did not grow up in a family with any performing arts folks in it. But as a kid and a teenager I sang, I wanted to be involved in theater. I was very passionate about music and as an average sized child, I was able to be involved in that. But after puberty, when suddenly I looked like every fat female, German peasant in my family because you know, we all have the big chest and the big cow birthing hips and the blonde hair. We all looked like German peasants. And suddenly no one wanted me on stage. Suddenly I wasn’t able to get cast in community theater. And I spent a brief period as a vocal performance major in college because I was really passionate about music and performing.
And I was getting messages from all over the place that my body was just not going to be accepted. And so unlike the letter writer I just turned away from performing. I just took a different path. And I’m very lucky, I realize, that I didn’t end up with an eating disorder because that is such a common thing in the performing world because of the obsession with thinness in the performing arts. And so this is a very personal for me because I also felt like my body was stopping me from doing the things that I was perfectly capable of doing on the stage.
Julie: Yeah. You know, I’m feeling so much sadness thinking about you and so many other people who were just pushed out of these different areas of expression and career choices based on body size. And I know there’s many different reasons why people…I think I’m thinking about accessibility and people who may not see someone themselves in performing arts and how that is just sadness for all of us. We’re missing out on so many people who could have done some amazing things. So I just want to name that. And I wonder too, if by you turning away from it, is that part of why you never experience eating disorder and other people in a similar place, you know, was it protective in the end?
Lindley: You know, I don’t know. I want to be very clear to you that me turning away and someone else developing an immune disorder, those things are morally equivalent. I didn’t have some, you know, I’m not better than the letter writer. I’m not, I didn’t make better choices. I didn’t. I want to be very clear that I’m not saying, well, unlike the letter writer, I didn’t develop an easy disorder. In the world that we live in, in the system that we are a part of an eating disorder is a perfect really reasonable mental path to take to try to deal with those pressures.
Julie: Oh, I agree 100%. Thank you for clarifying that too. And I agree, it just makes so much sense. And I think that’s part too of why there’s so much…it’s so messy to try to repair one’s relationship with food. Thinking about that and this letter writer, maybe someone who can identify with some parts or all this letter, what would you recommend to someone as some first steps forward?
Lindley: Well, I think the other really important part about this letter is the grieving. Grieving, not being able to get cast enrolled, grieving gaining back weight, grieving being in a larger body, grieving not being able to afford clothes that fit. We talk so much about fashion choices and plus size clothing and things in the activism world, because it’s one of the most easily discussable and visible ways that people in large bodies aren’t allowed to belong. And it’s okay to grieve these things. It’s okay to grieve the privileges that we lose when we live in a larger body. Totally okay and totally normal to grieve losing those things because it sucks to not be included. It sucks to not be able to get theater roles. It sucks to not do the things that you want to do in life because you have been arbitrarily excluded based on your body.
So I think allowing that grief is really important. It’s also really important to get angry if you need to get angry. But the most important part of this is placing the blame where it belongs. The blame is on the systems that we live in that oppress fat people, people in larger bodies. Our bodies are not the problem ever, even when our bodies feel like a problem because that exclusion is based in other people making choices that exclude us. So not…because it’s so easy for us to turn inward and say, my body is bad because it doesn’t fit. My body is bad because the only clothing I can afford is frumpy and you know, uncomfortable or it doesn’t fit right. My body is bad because it’s big.
But the problem is in the system and that’s hard and that’s scary to face, that the world is the problem and not us. So it’s easy to turn that inward. And that is part of what causes mental illnesses like eating disorders, because it’s easier to turn inward and blame our own bodies than it is to blame the world. But if you are angry, that is valid, but point that anger where it belongs.
Julie: Yeah. Yeah. I think about how anger for so many of us is not something that we’re really trained to tolerate and turning inward just seems more natural and also more appropriate maybe based on how we were brought up. Sometimes when I talk to people individually, when I was working with clients individually, they would get to a place of anger noticing these big systems that you’re describing. As someone who is sitting, I always say I’m sitting in the easy chair, with someone as they’re exploring this process and as I witness a person going from blaming themselves to start to look outside like, oh, it’s the system that’s broken, not me. It really brings me to tears every time when I would hear about it. And I would observe how it was uncomfortable to even start to open up the anger because I think there’s not a lot of training that we’ve had with tolerating anger. And it’s a lot of anger, you know, these are big systems. Is there anything that you have found in that space for you or anybody else that helps to sit with that anger? Because it is, it’s a big one.
Lindley: Yeah. I mean, I think allowing yourself to feel anger…I grew up in the Southern United States. I grew up being trained to be a nice sweet Southern lady, Southern white lady specifically and we didn’t do anger. We did passive aggressive.
Julie: Yes. I live in that area myself right now. We do that really well.
Lindley: Yeah. Yeah and I’m really good at it, but it’s not a healthy mode of communication either. I had to learn to use my words and state my needs and move out of passive aggressiveness into boundaries. So setting boundaries around your body is one method that you can learn to channel that anger. I don’t mean treating others badly because you’re angry that your body is being excluded. I mean setting boundaries like I’m angry because I cannot buy clothing at Forever 21 because Forever 21 has made the choice not to serve me. So I’m not going to go with my friends. I’m going to set a boundaries that I’m not going to go with my friends to Forever 21 and stand around while they try on clothing.
Julie: Yes.
Lindley: So you can channel that anger, channel that frustration and channel that grief into demanding that you be treated better and setting boundaries around what you will accept. You can channel the anger of not being able to get equal care, into firing your doctor and searching for one that is not going to treat you badly because of your body type. Not only allowing yourself to feel that anger, but channeling it into what you can reasonably do. You cannot fix the whole world yourself but you can channel that anger into being firm about what kind of treatment you will and won’t accept. You can channel it into anything that places it outside your body. You can channel it into activism if you want to start taking steps to be an activist. That was how I became an activist. I kept getting mad and I had to start talking about it.
Julie: Yeah. And we’re so grateful for you having that claim of activism. And I think that’s, as an observer, that’s what I often would notice if people. Learn to find a way to kind of sit with that anger and not be ashamed of it. Just name it like you said, observe it, this is what’s happening right now. Oftentimes it was this jet fuel for something. It may be just the activism that you’re describing or finding ways to have some new boundaries. But it was an energy that was so important because this is a really bumpy messy process. Again, like you said, it’s the whole system is broken. It’s not going to be fixed overnight and it’s not going to be an individual game, we’re all need to come together on this. I was going to ask you about the Food Peace syllabus, but before I move on, is there any other steps you had in mind or did we cover everything that you were hoping to say?
Lindley: Very quickly.
Julie: Yes.
Lindley: The other part of this letter, letter writer your personal history is so fascinating because of the boomerang through the generation. Your grandmother was very invested in diet culture because that was the system that she lived in. And so she tried to then enforce that system. Your mother rebelled and totally went the other way. The thing about this is that even though your parents tried to protect you, you still live in a world that is full of diet culture and that worships thinness. So as soon as you were able to get out in the world what your parents were doing to try to protect you wasn’t quite enough. That is very normal because we all live in these systems. So I just want to sort of note this intergenerational dynamic. People who are parents you do what you can, but your kids still live in that world.
Julie: Right, exactly.
For Parents, Children & Families
Browse body-friendly resources for parents and families on body image, maternity and parenthood.
Lindley: You should do what you can to protect your children. I want to note this really fascinating dynamic of this sort of boomeranging through generations and that, that is also very normal.
Julie: Right, yeah. That was a really interesting part to read too. It’s not very often that I hear a parent being brought up by a parent who’s dieting and knee deep and eating disorder behaviors, and then decides I’m not going to teach my child that and then it can still happen because as you said diet culture is so pervasive and there’s so much pressure as a parent to think you can protect everything, but we can’t. That’s a hard part, but I wonder moving forward, how the generations will look for this family. How this person doing the work and where they are right now and how that’ll look just generations down the line.
I wanted to ask you, Lindley about the Food Peace Syllabus. If you are new to the show, the Food Peace Syllabus is a collection of resources that we’ve been gathering over the last five or six years, that help with your own relationship with food and your Food Peace journey. You can get to the latest copy by going to www.juliedillonrd.com. Lindley, would you to add anything to it?
Lindley: I would, every week I put out a newsletter called The Body Liberation Guide. I say the word newsletter and people go, ‘oh no,’ but this one is worth it. I promise.
Julie: It is worth it.
Lindley: Yeah. Yeah. We talk every single week. There is some kind of original new writing in it. Okay, I lied every once in a while I recycle stuff that was particularly popular, but there’s some kind of original writing in it every single week. We talk about body image. We talk about accepting fat bodies. We talk about power dynamics. We talk about this sort of how to fix your body image. We talk about weight gain and so there’s also resources of here’s what people in the body acceptance world are talking about this week. It’s a really great, it’s usually a fairly long read. There’s a lot of stuff in it. It’s something that a lot of people are really looking forward to every week. I get lots of responses going, ‘oh, this is fantastic.’ So it’s not just me pumping up myself.
Julie: Right, it is. Your newsletter is very generous. It is very generous. I appreciate that you put a lot into it. I know when we were prepping for this episode I mentioned I get a lot of emails and newsletters that I delete without even opening but yours is one that, if I don’t have time to read it in that moment, I don’t delete it because I’m like, I really want to read this. There’s something every time that I get from it. Again, I think it’s just very generous of you to do that. So we will put a link in the show notes for anyone who is wanting to hear what we’re talking about. If someone wants to find out more about you and the work you’re doing, where’s the best place for them to go?
Lindley: Well, you can find everything that I do at www.bodyliberationphotos.com. I’m also very active on Instagram @bodyliberationwithlindley, L I N D L E Y.
Julie: Awesome. Again, we’ll put those in the show notes for you. Thank you so much Lindley for your time, your expertise, your compassion. I really, really appreciate it. I know the letter writer and anyone listening is going to really appreciate it too. So thank you.
Lindley: Yeah. Thanks so much for having me.
Julie: So there you have it. Letter writer, I hoped you enjoyed my conversation with Lindley Ashline. I hope that as you sift through all these complicated parts with your family history, with not seeing yourself in the spaces that bring you so much joy. I hope you give yourself permission to grieve like Linley said, and name those systems that are broken because you are not the broken one.
So I see that Food has written back, but before we get to Food’s letter, this episode of A Love Food Podcast was brought to you by my PCOS and Food Peace Course. Get all the details www.pcosandfoodpeace.com. Remember, through the month of September, 2021, you can get 30% off using the coupon code ‘TRUTH’ at checkout. Again, go to www.pcosandfoodpeace.com.
Did you enjoy this episode of A Love Food Podcast? Well, I would love it if you left a rating, a review, shared an episode. Doing any of those acts of kindness really helps the show grow. You can also push subscribe. I love hearing how you are experiencing the show. And I also have seen some new features in the apple podcast app that I’m not so sure about, but you can even save an episode just like you would save a post on Instagram. So I’m thinking doing that is something that also helps a show to be seen by others. So whenever you do any of those things just know it helps more people find access to Food Peace.
All right, like I said, Food has written back, but until next time, take care.
Dear Aging from Australia,
We are holding the intergenerational complicated ways of connecting to just falling at your feet. This burden must feel so heavy. We appreciate your body is often excluded from the spaces and places you’re in. This is not okay. You deserve to be seen, heard, and valued on the stage with friends and going to the doctor. Consider letting yourself grieve not being included. With threads of grief tied together you may notice anger. Anger towards the broken systems that excludes you. Allow that anger to be your jet fuel towards food peace for you and for others.
Love, Food.
Thank you for listening. I am Julie Duffy Dillon, and this is the Love Food Podcast. Do you want access to more Food Peace? Jump on over to my website and join my email list. There I share exclusive content that I don’t share anywhere else. Get access to these tips and strategies by going to www.juliedillonrd.com/signup. I look forward to seeing you here next week for another episode of A Love Food Podcast, take care.
Every Monday, I send out my Body Liberation Guide, a thoughtful email jam-packed with resources on body liberation, weight stigma, body image and more. And it’s free. Let’s change the world together. Subscribe »
Hi there! I'm Lindley. I create artwork that celebrates the unique beauty of bodies that fall outside conventional "beauty" standards at Body Liberation Photography. I'm also the creator of Body Liberation Stock and the Body Love Shop, a curated central resource for body-friendly artwork and products. Find all my work here at bodyliberationphotos.com.