LISTEN: Everyday activism, using your power and fat admirers with Sara Stanizai (with transcript)
Think you can’t support a movement from your corner of the world? Think again! In this Instagram Live, Sara Stanizai, LMFT and I talk about capital-A activism (with hand gestures), using your power to change the world, what counts as activism and simple ways you can help the fat folks in your life. Listen to our chat or read it with the transcript below.
Transcript
Sara Stanizai: Hi everybody. I hope you like my side pony today. For those of you who donβt know me, my name is Sara Stanizai. Iβm a licensed marriage and family therapist. Iβm the owner of Prospect Therapy here in Long Beach, California. We are an LGBTQ class-affirming therapy practice with a focus on serving first generation Americans, immigrants and children of immigrants, and bicultural folks.
Part of our team also specializes in supporting eating disorder recovery from a health-at-every-size framework. And I myself, Iβm actually pretty new to the game of body positivity, body liberation, body neutrality. By the way, all of those words mean different things. So Iβm really, really excited to welcome Lindley Ashline who Iβve been a fan of for the past couple of years. She created Body Liberation Stock which is actually size-inclusive stock photos. Her Body Liberation Guide, I definitely recommend it.
Her monthly newsletterβsorry to everybody elseβbut her newsletter is actually one of the few that I always save and get to and make sure that I read it in its entirety just because the content is really good.
And Iβm going to welcome Lindley now. So sheβs going to join us in a second. And Iβll have her introduce herself. But yeah, her content is fantastic. Her business is fantastic. She really stands by the values.
Hi Lindley! Hi! Oh my gosh! Iβm so excited to actually meet youβ¦ which is funny, I was just explaining how Iβve been a fan of yours for a couple of years. And I donβt even fully honestly remember how I was introduced to you or your work. Weβve never had a phone call. Weβve never met in person. Iβve just been lurking and obsessed with your whole social media presence. And all the content you create is really fantastic.
And I was saying that your Body Liberation Guide and your monthly newsletter is one of the few ones that I actually like and will set aside time for and make sure I read it like front to back because the writing is really great, but also all the resources. You curate the content from around the internet. And I learn something new every time.
So anyway, Iβm just going totally shamelessly plug it.
Iβm excited! I was also saying Iβm pretty new to the body liberation movement and body positivity. And Iβm also starting to see how that is soβwe can talk about it, but how those phrases and the movement is really corrupted by people sometimes. Youβre just doing toxic stuff but in a different way. So I donβt knowβ¦
But what weβre going to be talking about today is activism, how to leverage what privilege you have to support this or any other movement and visibility for people in larger bodies, why people are afraid to use the word βfat.β Itβs like a bad word that people donβt want to use. So we have a whole bunch to talk about.
If you want to startβ¦ Iβm just rambling. If you want to introduce yourselfβ¦?
Lindley Ashline: Yeah! Well, I actually have a funny story to share with everybody. Itβs sort of indirectly related to Sara before I introduce myself. So Sara is relatively new to the body liberation sphere as Sara was saying. And Iβm relatively new to the world of therapist and healthcare providers and the professional side of this.
And so, when I first encountered Sara, Sara hadβand I think this is on Facebook. Sara had her first name, last name and then Lmft after her name. And it happened to be capital Lmft. And for some reason, i thought that that was her last name. And so, for about two years in my head, Saraβs last name was βlumft.β
Sara Stanizai: Well, Iβm glad you never called me that. Thatβs probably easier to pronounce than my actual last name. But itβs cool! I just tell people, βItβs Stanizai. It rhymes with βstand aside.ββ And then, people remember. Itβs cool!
Lindley Ashline: Yeah, yeah. Itβs always great to have a mnemonic for your name. It helps people remember, yes.
So that said, my name is Lindley Ashlineβ¦ as Sara said. And I am primarily a photographer and author. I sort of have my fingers in a lot of pies across body liberation and fat acceptance and health-at-every-size. I do have a newsletter that I put out every week called The Body Liberation Guide. And thatβs what Sara was talking about. Every week, it has something from me. Usually, itβs some kind of rant.
Sara Stanizai: Your rants are like chefβs kiss. I love them!
Lindley Ashline: Wonderful! Wonderful⦠because I do a lot of them.
Sara Stanizai: And usually, theyβre almost always related to some kind of body liberation topic. Every once in a while, weβll talk about something else. But in the newsletter, we doβand by βwe,β I mean the royal we apparently. Itβs just me.
Lindley Ashline: Of course!
Sara Stanizai: But we do Body Liberation resources, some kind of resource list every week. We doβ¦
Lindley Ashline: Every once in a while thereβs like free stock photos.
Sara Stanizai: Every week, Iβll share my favorite photo of mine from the week. We talk about stock photos. We talk about a little bit of inside baseball. Last week, there is an eating disorder treatment center chain that put out a very embarrassing newsletter of their own that was very fat-phobic. And I sort of took them apart a little bit on that.
Lindley Ashline: No big deal!
Sara Stanizai: Yeah, yeah, the usual.
Usually, I donβt put a content warning on the newsletters because I figure once youβve seen one, you know the type of things Iβll talk about. But that one actually got a content warning, like a trigger warning, because the original content, it was pretty hardcore.
But Iβm primarily a photographer. I do client photography, portraits, boudoir, small business branding type sessions in non-CoVID times (right now, Iβm not taking clients for that. Iβm in the Washington state where itβs sort of iffy on the CoVID side. So Iβm not currently doing that). But I also sell diverse stock photos. I do some writing. Like I said, Iβve got my fingers in a lot of areas.
What were you going to say there?
Sara Stanizai: I was probably going to say like a hundred things just because Iβm so inspired by all of your work. But itβs exhausting. Every week, there is like a new thing you could rant about. And Iβm sure itβs even more frequent than that.
And I think one thing I really admire about youβIβm sort of teasing you, but I mean itβI really appreciate your rants because you are saying what a lot of people think and feel and you have the nerve to actually speak up. But as a result of that, it does put a target on you. Someone has to say that kind of stuff. And when I can, I do what I can. But when I donβt, Iβm always silent, Iβm cheering from my little social media section because I really appreciate people speaking up for things and the vulnerability that goes with it.
How do you do that? How do you make sure to protect yourself emotionally and otherwise?
Lindley Ashline: I have a great therapist. And I say that, and Iβm kind of laughing. But that has helped me developed coping strategies. I have historically, as a personality, Iβve been kind of a doormat. And there had been a couple of things that had allowed me to sort of become the loud one, the one that speaks out.
Some of that is good therapy, a good social safety net. I have friends I connect to. Like Iβve said, Iβve got somebody helping me create coping strategies.
And the other foundation of that is privilege. I live in what I might consider a large, fat body. Iβm not at the very end. Iβm not at the extreme end of the body size scale, on the large side. But in Lane Bryant sizing, here in the US, I wear like a 26/28. So I certainly have friends who are fatter than I am. But there are many, many people who are also smaller.
That said, Iβm also white. Iβm cis-gender. Iβm straight. I have a husband that supports us financially. Heβs a software developer. Heβs a wonderful person. But he makes pretty good money. So I have these foundations.
I donβt have a day job employer. I do some part-time corporate workβagain, in non-CoVID times. Iβm currently furloughed. But I work for a major, major company. But they donβt care. I come in and I do software tech writing for them, and they donβt care. So I donβt have an employer whoβs going to fire me if they find out about my activism. I was able to create my business that I run around my activism. Iβm not going to lose clients. Iβm not going to lose my livelihood because of my activism. And that is a huge, huge, huge privilege.
And I want to make a big point of sharing that because, yeah, Iβm putting myself out there, and yeah, itβs scaryβI got doxxed earlier this year. Doxxing is where somebody releases your personal information of some kind. In this case, it was my geographical location. They didnβt have my exact address. But it was close enough to be quite scary. And I had people out there, a whole forum-full of people who were hating on me and had my location. That was very scary.
And then, that ties into another privilege that I have that supports me in this work. I live in a community where thereβs security control because of my financial privilege. So I was able to call security control and ask them to step up, drive by my house for a while.
So, activism can be heard. And it can be scary. And I think one of the things that Sara and I are going to talk about too is activism in our daily lives, the types of power we do have and how we can use that. You donβt have to be like a capital-A activist, Activist, to do activism in your life. I have had the privilege to be able to choose to be sort of a capital-A activist at this point in my life. And Iβm very lucky that my businesses are founded on that, so that the people who do find me are into it. Iβm not generally having to explain to people, βOh, and Iβm also an activist.β
But these are the things that allow me to do this work and to be the loud one and to be the one whoβs sort of no longer a doormat while being supported in doing that.
I was actually in therapy yesterday. And I want to share this because it kind of blew my mind. It kind of blew my mind. It was sort of another sort of pillars of activism that I was missing. She was introducing me to this concept. I donβt know whether this is the person who created this concept. Thereβs a social justice related concept called right relationship. And my therapist is Desiree Lyn Adaway who is a wonderful anti-racist activist and consultant and educator. Please go find her and support her. She is the one who originally came up with this concept.
But the concept of right relationship, itβs really very closely related to having boundaries, but itβs sort of being in a relationship with someone where you are giving, but you also are in need. And itβs a really concept.
Sara Stanizai: Can we have you repeat that because you broke up for a second and I really want to hear it.
Lindley Ashline: Oh yeah. So right relationship, the way my therapist explained it is being in a relationship with someone or something where you are receiving what you need; and the other person is also receiving what they need. And as an activist, like I said, it kind of blew my mind because, like with the boundary, hereβs thinking, βHereβs what I need,β but also, βhereβs what Iβm willing to offerβ I feel like is the relationship part. βHereβs what Iβm willing and able to offer.β And thatβs how it differs from just having a boundary.
But especially when you are online, itβs a one-to-many relationship. For example, I donβt know how many people are actually watching this live video right now, but thereβs probably a number of you out there, and thereβs just one of me. I might have a personal relationship with Sara where I can set boundaries and have this right relationship, or work towards that, but I canβt have the right relationship with every single one of you. So that for me, it really comes back to boundaries, βHereβs what I need from you. You are the group of people,β and mostly, what that means, βI need you not to troll me. And if you troll me, Iβm going to block you.β
Let’s dig deep. Every Monday, I send out my Body Liberation Guide, a thoughtful email jam-packed with resources for changing the way you see your own body and the bodies you see around you. And it’s free. Let’s change the world together.
Sara Stanizai: Oh my God! You can have trolling.
Lindley Ashline: Yeah, yeah. I donβt need to engage. Thatβs my own boundaries as an activist. I donβt engage. If youβre not there in good faithβ¦ you knowβ¦?
Sara Stanizai: Yeah, people try to confuse that for like, βOh, youβre not being openβ or you are just shutting down dissent, or βpeople who donβt agree with me, I donβt want to hear it,β but thereβs a huge difference between taking someoneβs abuse and bullshit and actually just setting a limit.β And even if thereβs a lesson to be learned, you may not be obligated to learn it in the moment at that time. You may not be obligated to learn it publicly. Those things can be really helpful. But if Iβm really going to restore and transform and learn something from this, I might need a little bit more loving, challenging, like some hand-holding or some confrontation. But sometimes, we get caught up and people can demand that we learn something right in a certain way at a certain time. And I think that can be really tricky.
Iβm not here to protect things that are hateful. But if I really want to call someone in, and I really want there to be some kind of transformation at the end of it, I do need to make sure that theyβre receptive to it too. So itβs a hard line to tow.
Lindley Ashline: Right! And I think coming back to this topic that we want to talk about, the power that we have as individuals to create change and the various types of power that we might have depending on our daily lives, I think part of this is that when people start encountering activism, and when people are like, βOh, this is really important. Being body-accepting is really important. Ending weight stigma is really important. How do I go about this?β, or advocating for health-at-every-size, whatever your cause is, I think itβs really easy to get into a mode where we feel like we have to fight every fight, that we have to have a discussion with our co-worker about them freaking out about the donut in the break room because the fight is there, that we have to fight every person in our Facebook friends list, we have to educate everybody, we have to change everything all at onceβ¦ you donβt have to because youβll just burn out.
I had to decide really early on that, in general, I donβt do one-to-one fat acceptance or health-at-every-size education. Iβm not great at it. It drains me. And Iβm not the right person to sit down and have one-on-one discussions with everyone who needs a bridge. And Iβm not saying that thatβs not a valid thing to need. But Iβm not the right person to fill that. There are many, many wonderful people who do. I also recommend Jess Baker. Jess Baker is a wonderful one-to-one educator.
So, I will direct people to resources. I will have those conversations. But Iβm not the best person to do it. And so I released that really early on. And I make it very clear. Itβs in my space boundaries and my pinned stories on Instagram and on my Facebook page and so on. In general, I donβt do that type of education because itβs not my lane. And I will give you stuff to educate yourself. But thatβs a fight Iβm not fighting.
In general, I donβt do a lot with eating disorders because I donβt know a lot about them. Itβs not my lane. In general, I donβt speak for people with other oppressions or marginalizations. I donβt speak for people with visible disabilities. I donβt speak for people who are in bodies of color. There are other people doing that work. So I donβt have to fight that fight.
But ultimately, if Iβm not taking care of myself, and Iβm trying to fight every single fight, Iβm just going to burn out. I cannot do it all!
Sara Stanizai: No, we need you!
Lindley Ashline: Itβs so easy to fall. Itβs so easy to fall into it.
And you donβt have to either. You donβt have to do it all. If the choice is getting enough rest at night or fighting that guy on Facebook, like fighting your racist uncle on Facebook, or fighting your fat-phobic uncle, go get some sleep. Itβs okay!
That said, you have the power to fight fights. I donβt know, Iβm being very combative this morning because, again, because I only had one cup of coffee, and I normally have two. Iβm being very combative about this.
Sara Stanizai: I didnβt even notice!
Lindley Ashline: Five years ago, if you had told me, I would be on Instagram where Iβm going, βfight that fight,β Iβll be like, βWho are you? Who is this person?β But it doesnβt have to be about fighting either. But you doβ
Sara and I had wanted to talk about these levels of power because if youβre a CEO, you have a lot of power both in our capitalist culture, some sort of financial power probably and so on. But you also have a lot of cultural power. You get to set the tone for your company. You get to decide how diverse your employees are going to be and take steps to make that happen.
And itβs really easy to look to people who have a lot of power, the capital-A activistβIβm going to be doing the YMCA nextβthe capital-A activist who may have cultural call, and to celebrities and CEOβs, to look at this people and say, βYou have a lot of power. You also have a lot of responsibilityβ¦β And thatβs true. But we all have [β¦]
Sara Stanizai: Yeah, you donβt need to be a millionaire. You donβt need to be an influencer. You donβt need to have a huge fan base. Everybody at every strata has something that they can do. Sometimes, I think people self-select out of activism. And theyβll say, βOh, thatβs not my fight,β or βOh, thereβs not much I can do about this.β And it becomes very piecemeal.
You know, I tried talking to someone once online, and it turned into a huge fight. So, I just stay out of that stuff. Technically, you can do that. But if you do assume some responsibility for your values and putting those into action, maybe you donβt like the policy for a business, but maybe you can change how you are in your relationships and how conflicts are resolved even just one-on-one or within your family, thereβs always a level of power, something that you can leverage.
Lindley Ashline: Yeah, absolutely. When Sara and I were talking about what we were going to discuss today, I think I had said like from a big company CEO to a stay-at-home parent, there are different levels of cultural power, and it is a very different thing to say, βIβm in charge of a company thatβs hiring employeesβ and what thatβs going to look like, and itβs really different to be, say, a stay-at-home parent where you might feel that your sphere of influence is very limited. But when you look at, just because that power is different, it doesnβt mean that you donβt have it. If youβre raising childrenβand I say this as a non-parent, so this is something I donβt have a lot of experience in (you can message me, and I can point you to other people who talk about this topic. Again, Iβm not the right one to talk about parenting)βif you are a parent, you have tremendous power, you have incredible power. You are raising the next generation of people who are going to look at their bodies in a certain way. Obviously, you are not the sole influence in their lives. But the way that you look at your own body, the way that you talk about your own body, the way that you talk about other peopleβs bodies and look at other peopleβs bodies is massively influential to your kid and to your nieces or nephews and other young people in your lives. You have so much power.
And if youβre not a parent, and youβre not a CEO, and youβre working a job, and youβre living your life, when we think about activism, we think about it as being this big capital-A thing, we think about Lindley ranting in her newsletter every week, or somebody like Jess Baker who has a massive audience, or I donβt know, pick an activist that comes to your mind, Mother Theresaβ¦
Sara Stanizai: Jessamynβ¦
Lindley Ashline: Yeah, Jessamyn Stanleyβ¦ we look at those people and we go, βOh, my gosh! I canβt possibly do that. I just donβt have time for that because Iβve got a job and I need to sleep some time.β But activism just means that youβre taking action. Thatβs all that it means. It doesnβt mean that thatβs your livelihood. It doesnβt mean that thatβs your full-time. It doesnβt have to be your full-time gig. Just taking one action makes you an activist.
Sara Stanizai: And that one action can be like learning where you are wrong and doing better next time and allowing someone to correct you and learning like, βOh, I do have more to learn.β Even saying, βOh, I was wrong. Iβll do better next timeβ¦β
Lindley Ashline: Yeah, yeah.
Sara Stanizai: It goes so far. And it also models to other people that itβs okay to do that. Weβre not going to cancel you. Thereβs no room to grow. Everybody is at a different on this journey.
And people, they also select out of activism because theyβre like, βIf I canβt do it right, then Iβm not going to do it. Iβm going to screw up. Itβs too risky. I donβt want to lose whatever I have.β But saying, βYou know what? I didnβt realize that. I apologize. Iβm going to commit to learning. Iβm going to do my own research,β like Google is free also, by the way, that in itself is a form of activism. So I think people forget about that aspect of it too. They think that they really need to be.
Sometimes, there are things that arenβt safe for them to do. So thereβs always a way that you can do it.
Lindley Ashline: Yeah, yeah! And if you are able to gradually change the way that you look at other bodies and your own bodies, and you are able to move through life confidently in whatever body that you happen to be in, that is a huge deal! Thatβs a huge deal. Thatβs world-changing because the more people we have who just quietly live their lives and are just at peace with their own bodies, [β¦] where youβre not spending your whole life just obsessed with that fat roll that just popped up when you were 45, or whatever, how much time and attention and resources and money and love can you free up for other things? Thatβs world-changing.
And the more we have these role models out in the world of just everyday people, if thatβs the only thing you achieve in your lifetime, thatβs amazingβ¦ especially given how many things are working against us.
Sara Stanizai: Yeah, people donβt want us to feel happy in our bodies. People donβt want us to feel confident. The minute we start accepting and loving and not trying to change everything, then weβre freed up to do other things. And I think thereβs a lot of people who donβt want us to do that.
Lindley Ashline: Yeah, thereβs a lot of profit involved in not wanting us to do that.
And one of the things that I do, occasionally, Iβll do workshops with folks. And one of the things that we do is we sit there and we write down all the entities, people and organizations and companies and power structures in our current lives that profit, like actual money profit, and also power profit, from us hating our body. And the list is really wrong depending on how detailed you want to get.
Then of course, we all know this. We all know that Dove makes money when we buy cosmetics from them. This is obvious. You know this. But thereβs a lot of power in just listing it. Talking about activism power in whatever role you have in life, if you can, beyondβlike I said, just changing that you think about your own body and other bodies is activism, itβs a big deal. But if you can take one step beyond that and you can have a discussion with someone else, thatβs a big step too. But it doesnβt have to be. I was talking earlier about fights, and it doesnβt have to be fights. It can be, say youβre in a conference roomβand I need to stop my things at my desk because Iβm making my phone shake, I just realized. Iβm not currently at an earthquake.
If you could have one conversation, if your co-workers are cracking on maybe thereβs a fat lady whoβs not in the room, and somebody makes a crack about the fat lady whoβs not in the room, if you can just look at them and say, βHey, thatβs not okay,β thatβs a big, big, big deal. Big deal! You are having that discussion. Youβre making a change in the world. And youβre making life actively better for not only the fat lady whoβs not in the roomβand yes, I have been that fat lady whoβs overheard things just outside the room. I had some horror stories from my corporate lifeβ¦
Sara Stanizai: Who doesnβt?
Lindley Ashline: But if you could be the person who says, βHey, thatβs not okayβ¦β
If you can come into a Facebook discussion where your fat-phobic Uncle Jo is being awful about fat people and just say, βHey, thatβs not okay,β you donβt have to argue with him, you donβt have to have a fight, you donβt have to change his mind, but when you okay and you say in front of other people, βHey, thatβs not okay,β you are not only being an activist, but itβs really important because youβre showing all the fat people in the room or all the people in the room who have human bodies that that is not acceptable. And just saying, βHey, thatβs not okayβ has a lot of power.
Sara Stanizai: Yes, I think people are afraid of doing that because they think, βWell, I donβt have all the research articles. And I donβt have all the information. I canβt actually get into an argument, but I canβt back it up,β but you donβt have to do that every time. Of course, you can go educate yourself and do that. But just saying like, βHey, Iβm going to make this inconvenient for you. Hey, there are people who donβt like this. Hey, youβre not as freaking funny as you think are,β sending that message to people and to the people who are watchingβ
Thatβs the other thing. People say like, βOh, Iβm not going to say anything because Iβm not going to change that personβs mind,β you might and you donβt have to, but there are people watching and listening and it does make a difference to those people who maybe they canβt say anything, but they really appreciate that someone else is saying it for them. And I think thatβs one of the ways that we canβ
Iβm a straight-sized person. Thereβs a lot of privileges that I have, but Iβve had this line, βI donβt want to speak for people. I donβt want to speak in behalf of people. So Iβll just be quiet.β But then I have so much privilege that I can leverage. When can I use that for something so that is supportive rather than speaking over people or pretending that Iβm in the authority on something.
And I think, for me, for a long time, that really kept me from doing anything. Thatβs just my own perfectionism getting in the way. But you miss out! I can do that by providing emotional labor, by taking the load off of somebody else whoβs probably sick and frigginβ tired of it. And I donβt have to get everything right. But coupled with the ability to be corrected and be wrong, βOkay, I didnβt want to do nothing, so I did something. I seeβ¦ I learned something new today,β at least youβre speaking up and doing something rather than just saying, βOh, thatβs not me. That doesnβt involve me. Good luck with that. I support you. Iβm just going to be quiet over here.β
Lindley Ashline: Right, right?
And you mentioned research. And I think thatβs a really, really important thing for somebody who wants to start speaking up and is very intimidated. That was me for a long time too, mind you. Iβve been in the fat-acceptance community before positivity was a thing, 2006 or 2007. And I didnβt start actually speaking up until I quit my day job in 2015 because, at that point, I felt like that I wasnβt torpedoing my career by having fat acceptance things associated with me on Google.
Sara Stanizai: Gosh!
Lindley Ashline: So, I think I did spend many yearsβ¦ I donβt have all the research in my head to back up health-at-every-size and to back up that diets donβt work. I canβt just immediately cite things. And so, I guess I just shouldn’t be speaking up until Iβm like a perfect debate machine. And the thing is that I donβt do homework for people anymore. That is one of my boundaries as an activist. I donβt do the homework because the thing is that I know there is no actual scientific proof, a reputable, peer-reviewed proof, that people are able to lose weight and keep it off for five years or more. I donβt accept homework assignments from people.
And I will have people come in and demand that I prove to them that diets donβt work. And my response isβ¦ 100%, you prove that they do because youβre the one making the claim that they do. I donβt have to have [β¦] because nobody can prove that diets do work, take weight off and keep it off in the long-term.
And the thing is that it was 100%! People who wanted me to be a perfect citation machine were 100% trolling. Nobody was coming in in good faith. And theyβre demanding that I do homework for them.
On Twitter, a couple of years ago, I saw a screenshot on Twitter. Iβm not a perfect citation machine. So unfortunately, I donβt have the originalβ
Sara Stanizai: Lindley, what are you even doing? Iβm not going to listen to anything you have to say.
Lindley Ashline: Oh, you should because itβs really clever. It was a comeback to somebody who was trolling this person on Twitter. And they said something along the lines of βYou know what? Iβve known you for 10 seconds, and Iβve enjoyed none of them. Iβm not taking homework assignments from you.β And now, I use that line on Instagram a lot.
Sara Stanizai: Yes, Iβve seen it. Itβs a good one.
Lindley Ashline: You know what? Youβre a stranger. Youβve come in, youβre clearly here because you want to argue with someone on the internet about fat bodies, and again, thatβs my boundary.
Sara Stanizai: Do we not have the same internet? Like you can also look it up, I promise. No, I donβt have all theseβ¦
Lindley Ashline: And what that generally results in is that people will throw a CDCβfor non-US folks, thatβs the Center for Disease Control here in the US, whatever our federal agency is. Thereβs a CDC web page that people like to throw at me that talks aboutβI donβt know, itβs been thrown at me so many times and Iβve gone to look every time. It talks about people can successfully lose weight in the short-termβ¦ which is cool. We all know that. We all know that somebody who isβor weβve done it ourselves. Weβve lost a large amount of weight in a short time, and then weβve gained it back because thatβs what human bodies do. I donβt want to get too deep into the rabbit hole of diets donβt work because thatβs really all we need to establish, is that we donβt have any proof that they do.
And so, I just donβt that anymore. I donβt dig up stuff for people because, again, my role is to be that one-to-one education. So I donβt worry about it too much. If people are genuinely interested in the science of how we know that diets donβt work, Iβm happy to send them to Linda Bacon, Iβm happy to send them to the book, Body Respect, which talks about how we know that diets donβt work. But Iβm not going to sit there and debate with you.
Sara Stanizai: That information is out there. The work has been done. You can access it just like anyone else can.
And thatβs the other thing about activism too. Thereβs this thing floating around about all these newly βwokeβ people who are like, βWait! Iβm going to start a non-profit to stop this. And Iβm going to start a weekly meeting.β People are already doing this work. Why donβt you listen a little bit longer? You can learn yourself, and you can direct people to those resources and support those resources because we donβt needβyes, we need people onboard, but we donβt need 150 people doing the same work. Youβre much stronger when you actually support the people who are already doing it.
Lindley Ashline: Yeah. And when it comes to fat folks too, hereβs your weekly gossip for the morning actuallyβor whatever timezone youβre in. When it comes to fat folks as well, there is a cultural dynamic, thereβs a group of people who exists on the planet called fat admirers or FAβs and they fetishize primarily fat women. These are, in general, from what Iβve seen these are cis-gender, white, straight men who are fetishizing cis-gender, straight, white women essentially who live in fat bodies. And Iβm sure there are exceptions to that, but that is the majority that I have seen. And itβs a really unpleasant dynamic because these are people who could be fighting for fat liberation. Often, these people are fat themselves. But instead, they would rather see women as objects. And itβs really gross. But itβs something that if you are publicly on the internet in a fat body that you encounter a lot.
And often, thereβs a particular fat admirer who happens to live in a thin body himself who has started a number of initiatives, including a magazine. And maybe heβs got a non-profit going now. I donβt know, I kind of try to avoid him. And on the surface, these are all really great things because, on the surface, they are built to elevate the voices of fat women and show fat womenβs body in a positive way. But the way these things are executed is very fetishizing.
And the thing is thatβ¦ Iβm sex positive. Thereβs nothing wrong with fetishes. You do what you want to do as long as itβs not hurting someone else. But when you are treating people like objects in pursuit of your fetish, thatβs where I have a problem.
So if you have fat fetishes, cool! You do you. But donβt involve me in it. Donβt come creep on my Instagram.
Sara Stanizai: β¦without my consent. Without my consent and my buy-in. And also, donβt cloak it as something else, like youβre doing me a favor or something. If this is your fetish, if this is your thing, just call it that. It gets very insidious when itβs like, βNo,β that very benevolent feminism, βOh no, no, noβ¦ youβre so special. I need to treat you differently.β Itβs like, βOkay, why donβt you treat me the way I would like to be treated.β Yeah, itβs so creepy.
Lindley Ashline: Yeah, yeah. Itβs the difference between coming and leaving nice comments on my Instagram. And because I photograph a lot of fat women, and because I do boudoir photography as well, there are often half-clothed fat women on my Instagram, I get the nastiest, creepiest comments. You would not even believe!
People treat it like a dating service. I have these dudes send me private messages going, βHey, I would like to meet this lady.β What?! No! What, noβ¦ no.
Sara Stanizai: I remember seeing some of the comments and the messages that you get, I was like, βOh, my God!β I mean, itβs so rampant. Itβs like, βWhat are you thinking?β But anywaysβ¦
I just wanted to see if any of the folks who are watching have any questions or comments? I did put an AMA in my stories earlier. I donβt know if anyone had any comments or questions. And while we wait for those, if you want to let people know how they can find out more about you, and where they can see your contentβ¦?
Lindley Ashline: Yeah, the end of my juicy, gossip story was just that there exists this actual online magazine. And this guy has gotten involved in a bunch of other things and gets a lot of praise for it because, on the surface, itβs sort of elevating fat voices. But guess whoβs making a profit from his magazineβ¦ assuming there is any? I donβt know, to be fair. But who has the control? Who has the power to be over thereβ¦
Sara Stanizai: β¦who decides what goes in there, yeah.
Lindley Ashline: And itβs a thin, white dude. And itβs very clear that the content is based on what a fat admirer would want to see.
Sara Stanizai: Yeah.
Lindley Ashline: And itβs gross. Itβs gross.
Sara Stanizai: People who know will know it when they see it. And people who donβt recognize it, theyβre like, βOh wellβ¦β Theyβre giving him all the cookies and being like, βGood for you! Youβre doing such a nice thing.β But people who are affected by it are like, βI know exactly what this is.β
Lindley Ashline: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
So, at any rate, you can find me at BodyLiberationPhotos.com. And thatβs sort of my centralβ¦ you can find my client photography there, my stock photography work. You can sign up for the newsletter there. I have some free resources there as well.
There is a guide to find a body-positive photographer. People do occasionally travel in to see me for photos. But not everybody can afford that of course. So thereβs a Guide to Finding a Body-Positive Photographer in Your Own Area. Thereβs a set of free stock photos if you have a business. Thereβs a set of free diverse photos for you. There isβwell, coming soon, it isnβt up yet. But thereβs a fun, creative guide to creating a photoshoot whether itβs with a professional or with a friend, all these cool ideas for things you can do in any kind of body and things you can do if you use mobility aides, things that also work with that and so on. So thereβs a bunch of free stuff on the site.
Iβve got a YouTube playlist of body positive videos, all kinds of stuff.
Sara Stanizai: Awesome! Yeah, I love all your contentβyour own, original content and the resources, the things that you curate. I said earlier, I learn something every time. So Iβm a huge fan!
And Iβm really happy that you decided to join me. And I hope this is helpful for people who are afraid of activism or afraid of going into spaces whereβthe spaces need people. So as long as you can leverage what you can do, and youβre really open, itβs helpful.
Lindley Ashline: Yeah.
Sara Stanizai: Yeah. Thank you so much, Lindley. Thanks for your time.
Lindley Ashline: Yeah, thanks for having me, Sara.
Sara Stanizai: Iβm glad this is the first time we actually got to see each other. Hopefully, weβll do it again. Maybe I can come to Washingtonβ¦ when I can, whatever. Thanks so much!
Lindley Ashline: Thanks Sara! Everybody have a good day!
Sara Stanizai: Thanks! Byeβ¦
Let’s dig deep. Every Monday, I send out my Body Liberation Guide, a thoughtful email jam-packed with resources for changing the way you see your own body and the bodies you see around you. And it’s free. Let’s change the world together.
Hi there! I'm Lindley. I create artwork that celebrates the unique beauty of bodies that fall outside conventional "beauty" standards at Body Liberation Photography. I'm also the creator of Body Liberation Stock and the Body Love Shop, a curated central resource for body-friendly artwork and products. Find all my work here at bodyliberationphotos.com.