Think you can’t support a movement from your corner of the world? Think again! In this Instagram Live, Sara Stanizai, LMFT and I talk about capital-A activism (with hand gestures), using your power to change the world, what counts as activism and simple ways you can help the fat folks in your life. Listen to our chat or read it with the transcript below.
Transcript
Sara Stanizai: Hi everybody. I hope you like my side pony today. For those of you who donāt know me, my name is Sara Stanizai. Iām a licensed marriage and family therapist. Iām the owner of Prospect Therapy here in Long Beach, California. We are an LGBTQ class-affirming therapy practice with a focus on serving first generation Americans, immigrants and children of immigrants, and bicultural folks.
Part of our team also specializes in supporting eating disorder recovery from a health-at-every-size framework. And I myself, Iām actually pretty new to the game of body positivity, body liberation, body neutrality. By the way, all of those words mean different things. So Iām really, really excited to welcome Lindley Ashline who Iāve been a fan of for the past couple of years. She created Body Liberation Stock which is actually size-inclusive stock photos. Her Body Liberation Guide, I definitely recommend it.
Her monthly newsletterāsorry to everybody elseābut her newsletter is actually one of the few that I always save and get to and make sure that I read it in its entirety just because the content is really good.
And Iām going to welcome Lindley now. So sheās going to join us in a second. And Iāll have her introduce herself. But yeah, her content is fantastic. Her business is fantastic. She really stands by the values.
Hi Lindley! Hi! Oh my gosh! Iām so excited to actually meet youā¦ which is funny, I was just explaining how Iāve been a fan of yours for a couple of years. And I donāt even fully honestly remember how I was introduced to you or your work. Weāve never had a phone call. Weāve never met in person. Iāve just been lurking and obsessed with your whole social media presence. And all the content you create is really fantastic.
And I was saying that your Body Liberation Guide and your monthly newsletter is one of the few ones that I actually like and will set aside time for and make sure I read it like front to back because the writing is really great, but also all the resources. You curate the content from around the internet. And I learn something new every time.
So anyway, Iām just going totally shamelessly plug it.
Iām excited! I was also saying Iām pretty new to the body liberation movement and body positivity. And Iām also starting to see how that is soāwe can talk about it, but how those phrases and the movement is really corrupted by people sometimes. Youāre just doing toxic stuff but in a different way. So I donāt knowā¦
But what weāre going to be talking about today is activism, how to leverage what privilege you have to support this or any other movement and visibility for people in larger bodies, why people are afraid to use the word āfat.ā Itās like a bad word that people donāt want to use. So we have a whole bunch to talk about.
If you want to startā¦ Iām just rambling. If you want to introduce yourselfā¦?
Lindley Ashline: Yeah! Well, I actually have a funny story to share with everybody. Itās sort of indirectly related to Sara before I introduce myself. So Sara is relatively new to the body liberation sphere as Sara was saying. And Iām relatively new to the world of therapist and healthcare providers and the professional side of this.
And so, when I first encountered Sara, Sara hadāand I think this is on Facebook. Sara had her first name, last name and then Lmft after her name. And it happened to be capital Lmft. And for some reason, i thought that that was her last name. And so, for about two years in my head, Saraās last name was ālumft.ā
Sara Stanizai: Well, Iām glad you never called me that. Thatās probably easier to pronounce than my actual last name. But itās cool! I just tell people, āItās Stanizai. It rhymes with āstand aside.āā And then, people remember. Itās cool!
Lindley Ashline: Yeah, yeah. Itās always great to have a mnemonic for your name. It helps people remember, yes.
So that said, my name is Lindley Ashlineā¦ as Sara said. And I am primarily a photographer and author. I sort of have my fingers in a lot of pies across body liberation and fat acceptance and health-at-every-size. I do have a newsletter that I put out every week called The Body Liberation Guide. And thatās what Sara was talking about. Every week, it has something from me. Usually, itās some kind of rant.
Sara Stanizai: Your rants are like chefās kiss. I love them!
Lindley Ashline: Wonderful! Wonderfulā¦ because I do a lot of them.
Sara Stanizai: And usually, theyāre almost always related to some kind of body liberation topic. Every once in a while, weāll talk about something else. But in the newsletter, we doāand by āwe,ā I mean the royal we apparently. Itās just me.
Lindley Ashline: Of course!
Sara Stanizai: But we do Body Liberation resources, some kind of resource list every week. We doā¦
Lindley Ashline: Every once in a while thereās like free stock photos.
Sara Stanizai: Every week, Iāll share my favorite photo of mine from the week. We talk about stock photos. We talk about a little bit of inside baseball. Last week, there is an eating disorder treatment center chain that put out a very embarrassing newsletter of their own that was very fat-phobic. And I sort of took them apart a little bit on that.
Lindley Ashline: No big deal!
Sara Stanizai: Yeah, yeah, the usual.
Usually, I donāt put a content warning on the newsletters because I figure once youāve seen one, you know the type of things Iāll talk about. But that one actually got a content warning, like a trigger warning, because the original content, it was pretty hardcore.
But Iām primarily a photographer. I do client photography, portraits, boudoir, small business branding type sessions in non-CoVID times (right now, Iām not taking clients for that. Iām in the Washington state where itās sort of iffy on the CoVID side. So Iām not currently doing that). But I also sell diverse stock photos. I do some writing. Like I said, Iāve got my fingers in a lot of areas.
What were you going to say there?
Sara Stanizai: I was probably going to say like a hundred things just because Iām so inspired by all of your work. But itās exhausting. Every week, there is like a new thing you could rant about. And Iām sure itās even more frequent than that.
And I think one thing I really admire about youāIām sort of teasing you, but I mean itāI really appreciate your rants because you are saying what a lot of people think and feel and you have the nerve to actually speak up. But as a result of that, it does put a target on you. Someone has to say that kind of stuff. And when I can, I do what I can. But when I donāt, Iām always silent, Iām cheering from my little social media section because I really appreciate people speaking up for things and the vulnerability that goes with it.
How do you do that? How do you make sure to protect yourself emotionally and otherwise?
Lindley Ashline: I have a great therapist. And I say that, and Iām kind of laughing. But that has helped me developed coping strategies. I have historically, as a personality, Iāve been kind of a doormat. And there had been a couple of things that had allowed me to sort of become the loud one, the one that speaks out.
Some of that is good therapy, a good social safety net. I have friends I connect to. Like Iāve said, Iāve got somebody helping me create coping strategies.
And the other foundation of that is privilege. I live in what I might consider a large, fat body. Iām not at the very end. Iām not at the extreme end of the body size scale, on the large side. But in Lane Bryant sizing, here in the US, I wear like a 26/28. So I certainly have friends who are fatter than I am. But there are many, many people who are also smaller.
That said, Iām also white. Iām cis-gender. Iām straight. I have a husband that supports us financially. Heās a software developer. Heās a wonderful person. But he makes pretty good money. So I have these foundations.
I donāt have a day job employer. I do some part-time corporate workāagain, in non-CoVID times. Iām currently furloughed. But I work for a major, major company. But they donāt care. I come in and I do software tech writing for them, and they donāt care. So I donāt have an employer whoās going to fire me if they find out about my activism. I was able to create my business that I run around my activism. Iām not going to lose clients. Iām not going to lose my livelihood because of my activism. And that is a huge, huge, huge privilege.
And I want to make a big point of sharing that because, yeah, Iām putting myself out there, and yeah, itās scaryāI got doxxed earlier this year. Doxxing is where somebody releases your personal information of some kind. In this case, it was my geographical location. They didnāt have my exact address. But it was close enough to be quite scary. And I had people out there, a whole forum-full of people who were hating on me and had my location. That was very scary.
And then, that ties into another privilege that I have that supports me in this work. I live in a community where thereās security control because of my financial privilege. So I was able to call security control and ask them to step up, drive by my house for a while.
So, activism can be heard. And it can be scary. And I think one of the things that Sara and I are going to talk about too is activism in our daily lives, the types of power we do have and how we can use that. You donāt have to be like a capital-A activist, Activist, to do activism in your life. I have had the privilege to be able to choose to be sort of a capital-A activist at this point in my life. And Iām very lucky that my businesses are founded on that, so that the people who do find me are into it. Iām not generally having to explain to people, āOh, and Iām also an activist.ā
But these are the things that allow me to do this work and to be the loud one and to be the one whoās sort of no longer a doormat while being supported in doing that.
I was actually in therapy yesterday. And I want to share this because it kind of blew my mind. It kind of blew my mind. It was sort of another sort of pillars of activism that I was missing. She was introducing me to this concept. I donāt know whether this is the person who created this concept. Thereās a social justice related concept called right relationship. And my therapist is Desiree Lyn Adaway who is a wonderful anti-racist activist and consultant and educator. Please go find her and support her. She is the one who originally came up with this concept.
But the concept of right relationship, itās really very closely related to having boundaries, but itās sort of being in a relationship with someone where you are giving, but you also are in need. And itās a really concept.
Sara Stanizai: Can we have you repeat that because you broke up for a second and I really want to hear it.
Lindley Ashline: Oh yeah. So right relationship, the way my therapist explained it is being in a relationship with someone or something where you are receiving what you need; and the other person is also receiving what they need. And as an activist, like I said, it kind of blew my mind because, like with the boundary, hereās thinking, āHereās what I need,ā but also, āhereās what Iām willing to offerā I feel like is the relationship part. āHereās what Iām willing and able to offer.ā And thatās how it differs from just having a boundary.
But especially when you are online, itās a one-to-many relationship. For example, I donāt know how many people are actually watching this live video right now, but thereās probably a number of you out there, and thereās just one of me. I might have a personal relationship with Sara where I can set boundaries and have this right relationship, or work towards that, but I canāt have the right relationship with every single one of you. So that for me, it really comes back to boundaries, āHereās what I need from you. You are the group of people,ā and mostly, what that means, āI need you not to troll me. And if you troll me, Iām going to block you.ā
Let’s dig deep. Every Monday, I send out my Body Liberation Guide, a thoughtful email jam-packed with resources for changing the way you see your own body and the bodies you see around you. And it’s free. Let’s change the world together.
Sara Stanizai: Oh my God! You can have trolling.
Lindley Ashline: Yeah, yeah. I donāt need to engage. Thatās my own boundaries as an activist. I donāt engage. If youāre not there in good faithā¦ you knowā¦?
Sara Stanizai: Yeah, people try to confuse that for like, āOh, youāre not being openā or you are just shutting down dissent, or āpeople who donāt agree with me, I donāt want to hear it,ā but thereās a huge difference between taking someoneās abuse and bullshit and actually just setting a limit.ā And even if thereās a lesson to be learned, you may not be obligated to learn it in the moment at that time. You may not be obligated to learn it publicly. Those things can be really helpful. But if Iām really going to restore and transform and learn something from this, I might need a little bit more loving, challenging, like some hand-holding or some confrontation. But sometimes, we get caught up and people can demand that we learn something right in a certain way at a certain time. And I think that can be really tricky.
Iām not here to protect things that are hateful. But if I really want to call someone in, and I really want there to be some kind of transformation at the end of it, I do need to make sure that theyāre receptive to it too. So itās a hard line to tow.
Lindley Ashline: Right! And I think coming back to this topic that we want to talk about, the power that we have as individuals to create change and the various types of power that we might have depending on our daily lives, I think part of this is that when people start encountering activism, and when people are like, āOh, this is really important. Being body-accepting is really important. Ending weight stigma is really important. How do I go about this?ā, or advocating for health-at-every-size, whatever your cause is, I think itās really easy to get into a mode where we feel like we have to fight every fight, that we have to have a discussion with our co-worker about them freaking out about the donut in the break room because the fight is there, that we have to fight every person in our Facebook friends list, we have to educate everybody, we have to change everything all at onceā¦ you donāt have to because youāll just burn out.
I had to decide really early on that, in general, I donāt do one-to-one fat acceptance or health-at-every-size education. Iām not great at it. It drains me. And Iām not the right person to sit down and have one-on-one discussions with everyone who needs a bridge. And Iām not saying that thatās not a valid thing to need. But Iām not the right person to fill that. There are many, many wonderful people who do. I also recommend Jess Baker. Jess Baker is a wonderful one-to-one educator.
So, I will direct people to resources. I will have those conversations. But Iām not the best person to do it. And so I released that really early on. And I make it very clear. Itās in my space boundaries and my pinned stories on Instagram and on my Facebook page and so on. In general, I donāt do that type of education because itās not my lane. And I will give you stuff to educate yourself. But thatās a fight Iām not fighting.
In general, I donāt do a lot with eating disorders because I donāt know a lot about them. Itās not my lane. In general, I donāt speak for people with other oppressions or marginalizations. I donāt speak for people with visible disabilities. I donāt speak for people who are in bodies of color. There are other people doing that work. So I donāt have to fight that fight.
But ultimately, if Iām not taking care of myself, and Iām trying to fight every single fight, Iām just going to burn out. I cannot do it all!
Sara Stanizai: No, we need you!
Lindley Ashline: Itās so easy to fall. Itās so easy to fall into it.
And you donāt have to either. You donāt have to do it all. If the choice is getting enough rest at night or fighting that guy on Facebook, like fighting your racist uncle on Facebook, or fighting your fat-phobic uncle, go get some sleep. Itās okay!
That said, you have the power to fight fights. I donāt know, Iām being very combative this morning because, again, because I only had one cup of coffee, and I normally have two. Iām being very combative about this.
Sara Stanizai: I didnāt even notice!
Lindley Ashline: Five years ago, if you had told me, I would be on Instagram where Iām going, āfight that fight,ā Iāll be like, āWho are you? Who is this person?ā But it doesnāt have to be about fighting either. But you doā
Sara and I had wanted to talk about these levels of power because if youāre a CEO, you have a lot of power both in our capitalist culture, some sort of financial power probably and so on. But you also have a lot of cultural power. You get to set the tone for your company. You get to decide how diverse your employees are going to be and take steps to make that happen.
And itās really easy to look to people who have a lot of power, the capital-A activistāIām going to be doing the YMCA nextāthe capital-A activist who may have cultural call, and to celebrities and CEOās, to look at this people and say, āYou have a lot of power. You also have a lot of responsibilityā¦ā And thatās true. But we all have [ā¦]
Sara Stanizai: Yeah, you donāt need to be a millionaire. You donāt need to be an influencer. You donāt need to have a huge fan base. Everybody at every strata has something that they can do. Sometimes, I think people self-select out of activism. And theyāll say, āOh, thatās not my fight,ā or āOh, thereās not much I can do about this.ā And it becomes very piecemeal.
You know, I tried talking to someone once online, and it turned into a huge fight. So, I just stay out of that stuff. Technically, you can do that. But if you do assume some responsibility for your values and putting those into action, maybe you donāt like the policy for a business, but maybe you can change how you are in your relationships and how conflicts are resolved even just one-on-one or within your family, thereās always a level of power, something that you can leverage.
Lindley Ashline: Yeah, absolutely. When Sara and I were talking about what we were going to discuss today, I think I had said like from a big company CEO to a stay-at-home parent, there are different levels of cultural power, and it is a very different thing to say, āIām in charge of a company thatās hiring employeesā and what thatās going to look like, and itās really different to be, say, a stay-at-home parent where you might feel that your sphere of influence is very limited. But when you look at, just because that power is different, it doesnāt mean that you donāt have it. If youāre raising childrenāand I say this as a non-parent, so this is something I donāt have a lot of experience in (you can message me, and I can point you to other people who talk about this topic. Again, Iām not the right one to talk about parenting)āif you are a parent, you have tremendous power, you have incredible power. You are raising the next generation of people who are going to look at their bodies in a certain way. Obviously, you are not the sole influence in their lives. But the way that you look at your own body, the way that you talk about your own body, the way that you talk about other peopleās bodies and look at other peopleās bodies is massively influential to your kid and to your nieces or nephews and other young people in your lives. You have so much power.
And if youāre not a parent, and youāre not a CEO, and youāre working a job, and youāre living your life, when we think about activism, we think about it as being this big capital-A thing, we think about Lindley ranting in her newsletter every week, or somebody like Jess Baker who has a massive audience, or I donāt know, pick an activist that comes to your mind, Mother Theresaā¦
Sara Stanizai: Jessamynā¦
Lindley Ashline: Yeah, Jessamyn Stanleyā¦ we look at those people and we go, āOh, my gosh! I canāt possibly do that. I just donāt have time for that because Iāve got a job and I need to sleep some time.ā But activism just means that youāre taking action. Thatās all that it means. It doesnāt mean that thatās your livelihood. It doesnāt mean that thatās your full-time. It doesnāt have to be your full-time gig. Just taking one action makes you an activist.
Sara Stanizai: And that one action can be like learning where you are wrong and doing better next time and allowing someone to correct you and learning like, āOh, I do have more to learn.ā Even saying, āOh, I was wrong. Iāll do better next timeā¦ā
Lindley Ashline: Yeah, yeah.
Sara Stanizai: It goes so far. And it also models to other people that itās okay to do that. Weāre not going to cancel you. Thereās no room to grow. Everybody is at a different on this journey.
And people, they also select out of activism because theyāre like, āIf I canāt do it right, then Iām not going to do it. Iām going to screw up. Itās too risky. I donāt want to lose whatever I have.ā But saying, āYou know what? I didnāt realize that. I apologize. Iām going to commit to learning. Iām going to do my own research,ā like Google is free also, by the way, that in itself is a form of activism. So I think people forget about that aspect of it too. They think that they really need to be.
Sometimes, there are things that arenāt safe for them to do. So thereās always a way that you can do it.
Lindley Ashline: Yeah, yeah! And if you are able to gradually change the way that you look at other bodies and your own bodies, and you are able to move through life confidently in whatever body that you happen to be in, that is a huge deal! Thatās a huge deal. Thatās world-changing because the more people we have who just quietly live their lives and are just at peace with their own bodies, [ā¦] where youāre not spending your whole life just obsessed with that fat roll that just popped up when you were 45, or whatever, how much time and attention and resources and money and love can you free up for other things? Thatās world-changing.
And the more we have these role models out in the world of just everyday people, if thatās the only thing you achieve in your lifetime, thatās amazingā¦ especially given how many things are working against us.
Sara Stanizai: Yeah, people donāt want us to feel happy in our bodies. People donāt want us to feel confident. The minute we start accepting and loving and not trying to change everything, then weāre freed up to do other things. And I think thereās a lot of people who donāt want us to do that.
Lindley Ashline: Yeah, thereās a lot of profit involved in not wanting us to do that.
And one of the things that I do, occasionally, Iāll do workshops with folks. And one of the things that we do is we sit there and we write down all the entities, people and organizations and companies and power structures in our current lives that profit, like actual money profit, and also power profit, from us hating our body. And the list is really wrong depending on how detailed you want to get.
Then of course, we all know this. We all know that Dove makes money when we buy cosmetics from them. This is obvious. You know this. But thereās a lot of power in just listing it. Talking about activism power in whatever role you have in life, if you can, beyondālike I said, just changing that you think about your own body and other bodies is activism, itās a big deal. But if you can take one step beyond that and you can have a discussion with someone else, thatās a big step too. But it doesnāt have to be. I was talking earlier about fights, and it doesnāt have to be fights. It can be, say youāre in a conference roomāand I need to stop my things at my desk because Iām making my phone shake, I just realized. Iām not currently at an earthquake.
If you could have one conversation, if your co-workers are cracking on maybe thereās a fat lady whoās not in the room, and somebody makes a crack about the fat lady whoās not in the room, if you can just look at them and say, āHey, thatās not okay,ā thatās a big, big, big deal. Big deal! You are having that discussion. Youāre making a change in the world. And youāre making life actively better for not only the fat lady whoās not in the roomāand yes, I have been that fat lady whoās overheard things just outside the room. I had some horror stories from my corporate lifeā¦
Sara Stanizai: Who doesnāt?
Lindley Ashline: But if you could be the person who says, āHey, thatās not okayā¦ā
If you can come into a Facebook discussion where your fat-phobic Uncle Jo is being awful about fat people and just say, āHey, thatās not okay,ā you donāt have to argue with him, you donāt have to have a fight, you donāt have to change his mind, but when you okay and you say in front of other people, āHey, thatās not okay,ā you are not only being an activist, but itās really important because youāre showing all the fat people in the room or all the people in the room who have human bodies that that is not acceptable. And just saying, āHey, thatās not okayā has a lot of power.
Sara Stanizai: Yes, I think people are afraid of doing that because they think, āWell, I donāt have all the research articles. And I donāt have all the information. I canāt actually get into an argument, but I canāt back it up,ā but you donāt have to do that every time. Of course, you can go educate yourself and do that. But just saying like, āHey, Iām going to make this inconvenient for you. Hey, there are people who donāt like this. Hey, youāre not as freaking funny as you think are,ā sending that message to people and to the people who are watchingā
Thatās the other thing. People say like, āOh, Iām not going to say anything because Iām not going to change that personās mind,ā you might and you donāt have to, but there are people watching and listening and it does make a difference to those people who maybe they canāt say anything, but they really appreciate that someone else is saying it for them. And I think thatās one of the ways that we canā
Iām a straight-sized person. Thereās a lot of privileges that I have, but Iāve had this line, āI donāt want to speak for people. I donāt want to speak in behalf of people. So Iāll just be quiet.ā But then I have so much privilege that I can leverage. When can I use that for something so that is supportive rather than speaking over people or pretending that Iām in the authority on something.
And I think, for me, for a long time, that really kept me from doing anything. Thatās just my own perfectionism getting in the way. But you miss out! I can do that by providing emotional labor, by taking the load off of somebody else whoās probably sick and frigginā tired of it. And I donāt have to get everything right. But coupled with the ability to be corrected and be wrong, āOkay, I didnāt want to do nothing, so I did something. I seeā¦ I learned something new today,ā at least youāre speaking up and doing something rather than just saying, āOh, thatās not me. That doesnāt involve me. Good luck with that. I support you. Iām just going to be quiet over here.ā
Lindley Ashline: Right, right?
And you mentioned research. And I think thatās a really, really important thing for somebody who wants to start speaking up and is very intimidated. That was me for a long time too, mind you. Iāve been in the fat-acceptance community before positivity was a thing, 2006 or 2007. And I didnāt start actually speaking up until I quit my day job in 2015 because, at that point, I felt like that I wasnāt torpedoing my career by having fat acceptance things associated with me on Google.
Sara Stanizai: Gosh!
Lindley Ashline: So, I think I did spend many yearsā¦ I donāt have all the research in my head to back up health-at-every-size and to back up that diets donāt work. I canāt just immediately cite things. And so, I guess I just shouldn’t be speaking up until Iām like a perfect debate machine. And the thing is that I donāt do homework for people anymore. That is one of my boundaries as an activist. I donāt do the homework because the thing is that I know there is no actual scientific proof, a reputable, peer-reviewed proof, that people are able to lose weight and keep it off for five years or more. I donāt accept homework assignments from people.
And I will have people come in and demand that I prove to them that diets donāt work. And my response isā¦ 100%, you prove that they do because youāre the one making the claim that they do. I donāt have to have [ā¦] because nobody can prove that diets do work, take weight off and keep it off in the long-term.
And the thing is that it was 100%! People who wanted me to be a perfect citation machine were 100% trolling. Nobody was coming in in good faith. And theyāre demanding that I do homework for them.
On Twitter, a couple of years ago, I saw a screenshot on Twitter. Iām not a perfect citation machine. So unfortunately, I donāt have the originalā
Sara Stanizai: Lindley, what are you even doing? Iām not going to listen to anything you have to say.
Lindley Ashline: Oh, you should because itās really clever. It was a comeback to somebody who was trolling this person on Twitter. And they said something along the lines of āYou know what? Iāve known you for 10 seconds, and Iāve enjoyed none of them. Iām not taking homework assignments from you.ā And now, I use that line on Instagram a lot.
Sara Stanizai: Yes, Iāve seen it. Itās a good one.
Lindley Ashline: You know what? Youāre a stranger. Youāve come in, youāre clearly here because you want to argue with someone on the internet about fat bodies, and again, thatās my boundary.
Sara Stanizai: Do we not have the same internet? Like you can also look it up, I promise. No, I donāt have all theseā¦
Lindley Ashline: And what that generally results in is that people will throw a CDCāfor non-US folks, thatās the Center for Disease Control here in the US, whatever our federal agency is. Thereās a CDC web page that people like to throw at me that talks aboutāI donāt know, itās been thrown at me so many times and Iāve gone to look every time. It talks about people can successfully lose weight in the short-termā¦ which is cool. We all know that. We all know that somebody who isāor weāve done it ourselves. Weāve lost a large amount of weight in a short time, and then weāve gained it back because thatās what human bodies do. I donāt want to get too deep into the rabbit hole of diets donāt work because thatās really all we need to establish, is that we donāt have any proof that they do.
And so, I just donāt that anymore. I donāt dig up stuff for people because, again, my role is to be that one-to-one education. So I donāt worry about it too much. If people are genuinely interested in the science of how we know that diets donāt work, Iām happy to send them to Linda Bacon, Iām happy to send them to the book, Body Respect, which talks about how we know that diets donāt work. But Iām not going to sit there and debate with you.
Sara Stanizai: That information is out there. The work has been done. You can access it just like anyone else can.
And thatās the other thing about activism too. Thereās this thing floating around about all these newly āwokeā people who are like, āWait! Iām going to start a non-profit to stop this. And Iām going to start a weekly meeting.ā People are already doing this work. Why donāt you listen a little bit longer? You can learn yourself, and you can direct people to those resources and support those resources because we donāt needāyes, we need people onboard, but we donāt need 150 people doing the same work. Youāre much stronger when you actually support the people who are already doing it.
Lindley Ashline: Yeah. And when it comes to fat folks too, hereās your weekly gossip for the morning actuallyāor whatever timezone youāre in. When it comes to fat folks as well, there is a cultural dynamic, thereās a group of people who exists on the planet called fat admirers or FAās and they fetishize primarily fat women. These are, in general, from what Iāve seen these are cis-gender, white, straight men who are fetishizing cis-gender, straight, white women essentially who live in fat bodies. And Iām sure there are exceptions to that, but that is the majority that I have seen. And itās a really unpleasant dynamic because these are people who could be fighting for fat liberation. Often, these people are fat themselves. But instead, they would rather see women as objects. And itās really gross. But itās something that if you are publicly on the internet in a fat body that you encounter a lot.
And often, thereās a particular fat admirer who happens to live in a thin body himself who has started a number of initiatives, including a magazine. And maybe heās got a non-profit going now. I donāt know, I kind of try to avoid him. And on the surface, these are all really great things because, on the surface, they are built to elevate the voices of fat women and show fat womenās body in a positive way. But the way these things are executed is very fetishizing.
And the thing is thatā¦ Iām sex positive. Thereās nothing wrong with fetishes. You do what you want to do as long as itās not hurting someone else. But when you are treating people like objects in pursuit of your fetish, thatās where I have a problem.
So if you have fat fetishes, cool! You do you. But donāt involve me in it. Donāt come creep on my Instagram.
Sara Stanizai: ā¦without my consent. Without my consent and my buy-in. And also, donāt cloak it as something else, like youāre doing me a favor or something. If this is your fetish, if this is your thing, just call it that. It gets very insidious when itās like, āNo,ā that very benevolent feminism, āOh no, no, noā¦ youāre so special. I need to treat you differently.ā Itās like, āOkay, why donāt you treat me the way I would like to be treated.ā Yeah, itās so creepy.
Lindley Ashline: Yeah, yeah. Itās the difference between coming and leaving nice comments on my Instagram. And because I photograph a lot of fat women, and because I do boudoir photography as well, there are often half-clothed fat women on my Instagram, I get the nastiest, creepiest comments. You would not even believe!
People treat it like a dating service. I have these dudes send me private messages going, āHey, I would like to meet this lady.ā What?! No! What, noā¦ no.
Sara Stanizai: I remember seeing some of the comments and the messages that you get, I was like, āOh, my God!ā I mean, itās so rampant. Itās like, āWhat are you thinking?ā But anywaysā¦
I just wanted to see if any of the folks who are watching have any questions or comments? I did put an AMA in my stories earlier. I donāt know if anyone had any comments or questions. And while we wait for those, if you want to let people know how they can find out more about you, and where they can see your contentā¦?
Lindley Ashline: Yeah, the end of my juicy, gossip story was just that there exists this actual online magazine. And this guy has gotten involved in a bunch of other things and gets a lot of praise for it because, on the surface, itās sort of elevating fat voices. But guess whoās making a profit from his magazineā¦ assuming there is any? I donāt know, to be fair. But who has the control? Who has the power to be over thereā¦
Sara Stanizai: ā¦who decides what goes in there, yeah.
Lindley Ashline: And itās a thin, white dude. And itās very clear that the content is based on what a fat admirer would want to see.
Sara Stanizai: Yeah.
Lindley Ashline: And itās gross. Itās gross.
Sara Stanizai: People who know will know it when they see it. And people who donāt recognize it, theyāre like, āOh wellā¦ā Theyāre giving him all the cookies and being like, āGood for you! Youāre doing such a nice thing.ā But people who are affected by it are like, āI know exactly what this is.ā
Lindley Ashline: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
So, at any rate, you can find me at BodyLiberationPhotos.com. And thatās sort of my centralā¦ you can find my client photography there, my stock photography work. You can sign up for the newsletter there. I have some free resources there as well.
There is a guide to find a body-positive photographer. People do occasionally travel in to see me for photos. But not everybody can afford that of course. So thereās a Guide to Finding a Body-Positive Photographer in Your Own Area. Thereās a set of free stock photos if you have a business. Thereās a set of free diverse photos for you. There isāwell, coming soon, it isnāt up yet. But thereās a fun, creative guide to creating a photoshoot whether itās with a professional or with a friend, all these cool ideas for things you can do in any kind of body and things you can do if you use mobility aides, things that also work with that and so on. So thereās a bunch of free stuff on the site.
Iāve got a YouTube playlist of body positive videos, all kinds of stuff.
Sara Stanizai: Awesome! Yeah, I love all your contentāyour own, original content and the resources, the things that you curate. I said earlier, I learn something every time. So Iām a huge fan!
And Iām really happy that you decided to join me. And I hope this is helpful for people who are afraid of activism or afraid of going into spaces whereāthe spaces need people. So as long as you can leverage what you can do, and youāre really open, itās helpful.
Lindley Ashline: Yeah.
Sara Stanizai: Yeah. Thank you so much, Lindley. Thanks for your time.
Lindley Ashline: Yeah, thanks for having me, Sara.
Sara Stanizai: Iām glad this is the first time we actually got to see each other. Hopefully, weāll do it again. Maybe I can come to Washingtonā¦ when I can, whatever. Thanks so much!
Lindley Ashline: Thanks Sara! Everybody have a good day!
Sara Stanizai: Thanks! Byeā¦
Let’s dig deep. Every Monday, I send out my Body Liberation Guide, a thoughtful email jam-packed with resources for changing the way you see your own body and the bodies you see around you. And it’s free. Let’s change the world together.
Hi there! I'm Lindley (she/her, pronounced LIN-lee). I create artwork that celebrates the unique beauty of bodies that fall outside conventional "beauty" standards at Body Liberation Photography. I'm also the creator of Body Liberation Stock, which provides body-positive stock photos for commercial use, and the Body Love Shop, a curated central resource for body-friendly artwork and products. Find all my work at https://staging.bodyliberationphotos.com.